Valentine Morgenstern

Valentine: Our resident "villian."

Talk here about why you like/don't like Valentine and how you think his role in the story furthers the plot.

Be aware that you are not forced to dislike him. There are people that can see something in him. Just make sure that everyone's opinions are respected!

I still think he loves Jocelyn in his own twisted way. Thoughts?

??????
Haha libby I don't understand...
Do you mean... Jace? He loves Jace in his own twisted way??

I think of Valentine as having the right "ideas" but goes about them the wrong way. Some of what he explained to Clary and Jace has some merit to it. Haha I can't completely rembember what all he said, but I remember thinking that he had something going with what he said.

He just needs to proceed with his plans... in a slightly less evil way.

hahaha oh my, I am getting everything mixed up. Thinking Valentine, but I meant to type Jocelyn. Sorry for the confusion.

With Valentine and his evil plans, I've always wanted to know about his home life as a child... was he loved? Did his father make him feel like starting a genocide?

I can't remember myself thinking his plans had merit or whatnot, though I haven't read the books in a very long time (finally got them back from my friend last night), so I'm going to go over them within the next few days and get back to you on that

^Ohhhhhhhhh ok I understand now haha.
Yeah, I think he still kind of loves her also. I think he wouldn't have kept her alive in CoB if he didn't still care for her a bit.

I wish I could rightly remember what his ideas were so I could be all "Bam! I've got his ideas right here!" but... I can't lol.

So since you are looking, I will wait for you.

Valentine's ideas, as far as I can recall, were to purge Earth of all demon taint, by expelling all the demons and downworlders with the help of a child army forcefully created from mundanes. However, later he alters this into using a demon army, cause everyone figured the old one out.

He's a bit of a spaz. Yes, demons out=good, but no Magnus, Maia, Simon, or Raphael? Not the way to go, buddy. Do away with the seelie queen. She bugs the heck out of me in CoA and Ironside (I treat them as the same person).

^Thank you! you have reminded me of what he was saying.

He wants to get rid of all the demons (which, is essentially the job of a shadowhunter, just on a larger scale) But he wants to do this in a way that sacrifices possible thousands of lives in the process.

So, he has a good goal in mind, its just the murder of all the innocent people that negates it.

See my point now that Lai has brought up his ideas? haha

I agree ^
He thinks what he's doing is for the good of mankind, which you can kind of see his point, but NO WAY is anyone other than him going to be pleased about getting rid of Magnus!
He has good idea's, but he doesn't quite see that he's being a bit extreme!
I for one cannot wait to find out about the experiments he supposedly did on Jace and Clary.

yea he does have good ideas
BUT hello jace aint really clarys sistah
and he lied to em about it
dats pritty evil too

yea he was right about gettin rid of all da demons



i liked the queen of the seelie court

Valentine is evil okay? Thats all you can say. Okay, maybe he DOES show SOME affection for Jace, Clary, Jocelyn and such, but he is wanting to kill all demons, AND kill all the Shadowhunters that were previously alive, and create new ones under his rule? Emmmmmmmm.....tell me that isn't evil.
This is how Valentine thinks he looks now:
This is how he wants to look after he kills all demons and Shadowhunters:
This is how he looks all thoughout the book:

Sometimes I like him, sometimes I don't. I can see his point but I despise the way he's trying to execute it. He would kill his own family members, just for the cause he believes in, and that -to me- seems way to wrong. Way to go, Raziel. Though I would've liked a death a little less quick, you know? He spat everything, right in Valentine's face and then he spat him to death. lol

I dreamt of him last night, by chance.